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Extra video lectures for those whose equipment can handle longer videos:

The following lectures were taped during Greg Nagy's "The Concept of the Hero in Greek Civilization" course in Fall 1998. They touch on similar points as the video clips provided for this series, but also make use of parallels in modern media, such as film clips that have been incorporated into the lectures. Each lecture is about an hour long.

Lecture Number One

Lecture Number Two

Lecture Number Three

Lecture Number Four

Hungarian Lament (audio only)

Lecture Number Five

Lecture Number Six

Lecture Number Seven

Lecture Number Eight

Unit 2: The Embassy to Achilles in Iliad 9.

Readings:

Central: Iliad 9

Additional: Iliad 10-15

On-line video:

Dialogue 2

Dialogue 3

(If you do not have RealVideo installed, go to Getting Started.)

 

DIALOGUE II NOTES

(Highlights of Dialogue Two)

Scroll Nine presents us with more of the moral issues of the Iliad, for here we see what is at stake in Achilles' choice not to return to battle along with the other Achaeans. In the scroll, Agamemnon decides he cannot win without Achilles and sends an embassy of Achilles' friends, but he formulates the terms for the settlement of their quarrel in such a way that Achilles cannot accept the terms without compromising his own heroic identity.

When Ajax realizes that Achilles will not accept Agamemnon's offer, he tells Achilles that he is hard-hearted, for even someone who has lost a near and dear relative will accept compensation for that relative, but Achilles won't accept compensation for a "mere girl." Neither Achilles nor Ajax yet sees the big picture of what is at stake, but the fact that Achilles has to refuse this offer of compensation to maintain his heroic status will lead to his becoming a man of constant sorrow, and he will experience the most unbearable grief.

Achilles must make a choice between having a safe homecoming and a long life or, as he says at Iliad 9.413, his safe homecoming will be destroyed but he will have a glory that is unwilting (=preserved forever in poetic tradition like a beautiful flower that never loses its sheen, hue, saturation, aroma, and this flower is his epic). In return for being contained in this beautiful flower of a song, he will have to give up his homecoming, his life.

This is the choice Achilles must make as the central hero of his own epic. By making this choice, he will have to disappoint his best friends and comrades in arms, and this is why Ajax is so outraged. But at that moment, Ajax thinks that what is at stake is "just a girl."

Achilles has no choice: he may not see the implications of his choice, and Ajax certainly does not. We may start to see what the implications are because we have already read the litigation scene on the Shield. But we will still have to determine who the dead man in that scene is.

The stakes involved are becoming clear: Achilles must let down his friends and preserve his status as the central figure of this epic. But the cost will be high, for he will not only let his friends down, but he will lose the person who is nearest and dearest to him, his other self, Patroklos (whose name means 'the glory of the ancestors'). The loss will be great: once Achilles hears of the death of Patroklos, we will begin to appreciate how he has relearned his own value system and how he rethinks what the price of a life is. But for more on that, we will have to wait until next week's dialogue.

 

1. In scroll 9 of the Iliad, Phoenix tells the story of Meleager to Achilles in an attempt to bring Achilles back into the war. The overall message of his story is that Meleager, in a situation similar to that of Achilles', stayed home and only returned when it was too late to get the gifts that were initially offered to him. Meleager receives no compensation for his efforts. How are the Greek ideas about compensation and reciprocity (kharis) and justice connected in this story? How does this story relate to other examples of reciprocity and exchange that we have read in scroll I and on the shield? Does Meleager get justice?

2. After Phoenix tells the story of Meleager, Achilles continues to refuse to return to battle and help his comrades. Ajax, who considers himself one of Achilles' nearest and dearest comrades, is outraged. He reacts to the words of Achilles by telling Odysseus that they might as well leave, since they won't ever be able to persuade Achilles. Ajax says to Odysseus: "Achilles is savage and remorseless; he is cruel and cares nothing for the affection [philotês] that his comrades lavished upon him more than all the others. He is implacable--and yet if a man's brother or son has been slain he [=that man] will accept a fine [poinê] by way of amends from him that killed him and the wrong-doer having paid in full remains in peace in his own district [dêmos], but as for you, Achilles, the gods have put a wicked unforgiving spirit [thumos] in your breast, and this, all about one single girl, whereas we now offer you the seven best we have, and much more into the bargain." (Iliad IX.628-639).

Several responders last week offered the suggestion that the scene on the shield is 'in the future' with respect to the strife between Achilles and Agamemnon and its mechanism for resolution. What do the words of Ajax, however, imply about the expectations of Achilles' comrades for how this dispute should be settled? On the other hand, is the dispute about the affection of Achilles' comrades, or about 'one single girl'? What has Achilles come to see as at stake or the 'price' involved in his choice about whether to return to the war?

3. *Bonus question from optional reading* Scroll 3 presents the duel between Paris and Menelaus, the two husbands of Helen. In this scroll, the duel is described as being for "Helen and all her possessions" (see 3.70, 3.91, 3.282, 3.285, and 3.458; see also 22.114). Last week, we saw how the argument over the woman Briseis between Agamemnon and Achilles is similar to the war over Helen between Paris and Menelaus (and all their friends). Is the one-on-one duel between Paris and Menlaus similar to litigation in any way? And in Scroll 9, Achilles is offered Briseis back with the addition of many material goods by Agamemnon to rejoin the fighting. What is the importance of material goods in these disputes, and how do they factor in to a 'just' resolution of either dispute?

DIALOGUE III NOTES

(Highlights of Dialogue Three)

Part I. In the first dialogue and in the discussion for the first week of Homer's Poetic Justice we explored the ways in which the shield serves as a microcosm for the Iliad as a whole. A successful decoding of the shield at the same time decodes the moral agenda behind the entire Iliad.

Micronarratives like that of the shield can be found throughout the Iliad. These micronarratives, like the shield, interact with the larger context or macronarrative and carry all kinds of messages for both the characters and the audience.

A good example of such a narrative is the story of Meleager, which the old man Phoenix tells to Achilles in the embassy of Iliad IX in attempt to bring Achilles back into the war. As you read Phoenix's story note the following:

1. There are multiple levels of narrative: Phoenix's story reaches even beyond the immediate context of scroll IX to encompass meaning for events that will happen much later. Phoenix' point in telling the story gets subsumed to the poet's larger goals.

2. Just as with the shield, we can make direct connections between the figures in the Meleager story, and the characters in the larger narrative in the Iliad.

3. The Iliad represents only one of countless epic traditions that once flourished in ancient Greece. In the Meleager story we can detect compressed references to a possible epic of Iliadic proportions about Meleager (cf. IX 555ff.: "He was incensed with his mother Althaia, and therefore stayed at home with his wedded wife fair Cleopatra, who was daughter of Marpessa daughter of Euenos, and of Ides the man then living.")

What is the story behind Meleager's anger? The poet and his intended audience know, because they know the larger epic tradition about Meleager. Depending on the mood of poet and audience, compressed stories\ like the one of Meleager in the Iliad could be expanded without limit.

Phoenix himself is represented much like an epic poet when he begins his tale: "I totally recall [memnmai] this event of the past - it is not a new thing - and how it happened. You are all near and dear [philoi], and I will tell it in your presence. The Curetes and the Aetolians were fighting..."

Phoenix' story revolves around the idea of compensation, but also the importance of one's nearest and dearest companions, that is his comrades, in a warrior's ascending scale of affection. Meleager's ascending scale got confused when he decided to stay home with his wife. Achilles' ascending scale seems to be similarly out of order. How can we relate these two important concepts to our discussion about justice? For the Greeks the idea of helping one's friends and receiving compensation for that effort are not as inconsistent with each other as we might think. When we read this story we should think about whether Meleager was treated unjustly. If so, what does that mean for Achilles?

Part II. As we continue to think about how micronarratives speak to the larger issues in the Iliad, we can look back at Scroll Three and the duel between Paris and Menelaus. This story, which logically belongs much earlier in the war than the tenth year that the Iliad focuses on, shows how the epic can reincorporate material outside its immediate context.

When Helen is brought to the walls to watch this duel, we also see another kind of micronarrative at work. Priam asks Helen about each of the Greek heroes (as though he wouldn't recognize them after ten years), and this gives Helen a chance to talk about Agamemnon and Odysseus in her own words.

And it is Helen's words in this scene which show us another aspect of the micronarrative. The scene begins with a buzz of excitement (the metaphor is the sound of cicadas) when Helen arrives, and Priam tells her to come and sit with him, for he doesn't blame her for the war. But as Helen tells him about the Greek heroes, she blames herself for the war in very harsh terms and in a way that no one else in the epic does. Thus this micronarrative is not only a way to bring in material that belongs outside of the epic's context temporally speaking, but it also allows a different viewpoint of what the issues of the Trojan War are to be expressed.